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Hmong-Mien origins
Topic Started: Oct 3 2010, 11:56:38 PM (562 Views)
ren
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The earliest historical mention of a people with an approximate ethnonym are the 髳, or 髳方 (髳 nation), who were part of the Zhou coalition that overthrew the Shang, but it is tenuous to connect them with Hmong-Mien as there is no historical record linking the two. They are recorded in Shang oracle bones as an enemy state that was the target of Shang punitive campaignes. Their approximate location is to the west of Shang, approxiamtey neighboring the Zhou. "髳方为商朝末期西方八国之一。"*3

1. http://baike.baidu.com/link?url=vPgwijKLyBc2FVmufr_ewaGTB92mtLJA4GuvhrYfKQqrYxroUufXhKvelCkmyadD0B-uEHEe6b1HKiRd4WtCXq
2. http://www.360doc.com/content/14/0513/08/358614_377134434.shtml
3. http://ldhn.rednet.cn/c/2015/12/22/3869921.htm




Yao/Mien origins: the 梅山蛮

According to this, the Yao/Mien were still in eastern Hunan during the Song dynasty, but after being pacified in a rebellion, they migrated southwards to escape persecution. This means the whole of Hmong-Mien was in Hunan just 1,000 years ago. The language family is really young. Hmong expanded southwards during the Ming, Qing eras (1400-1800) again out of rebellion and persecution.
在宋代,位于今湖南新化、安化的梅山蛮,其首领苏方,峒主苏甘所部与诸蛮互有争战。后在北宋熙宁年间(公元1068— 1077年)被章悖率宋朝官兵以武力平定。留居新化一带者,成为汉族,并成为当地大姓。南逃湘南者,成为瑶族,有的并远徙两广,云南及越南、老挝、泰国的北部山区。在云南黎县黎州诸蛮有雨林蛮,其头领苏吠在宋太祖时被授为怀化将军,说明苏氏蛮族虽与宋朝有矛盾,但仍保持有较为友好的关系.
http://baike.baidu.com/view/33771.htm
Edited by ren, Dec 31 2015, 01:04:39 PM.
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black man
The Right Hand
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ren
Oct 3 2010, 11:56:38 PM
Yao/Mien origins: the 梅山蛮

According to this, the Yao/Mien were still in eastern Hunan during the Song dynasty, but after being pacified in a rebellion, they migrated southwards to escape persecution. This means the whole of Hmong-Mien was in Hunan just 1,000 years ago. The language family is really young. Hmong expanded southwards during the Ming, Qing eras (1400-1800) again out of rebellion and persecution.
在宋代,位于今湖南新化、安化的梅山蛮,其首领苏方,峒主苏甘所部与诸蛮互有争战。后在北宋熙宁年间(公元1068— 1077年)被章悖率宋朝官兵以武力平定。留居新化一带者,成为汉族,并成为当地大姓。南逃湘南者,成为瑶族,有的并远徙两广,云南及越南、老挝、泰国的北部山区。在云南黎县黎州诸蛮有雨林蛮,其头领苏吠在宋太祖时被授为怀化将军,说明苏氏蛮族虽与宋朝有矛盾,但仍保持有较为友好的关系.
http://baike.baidu.com/view/33771.htm
If I'm not mistaken, the Han populations of the Xiang and Gan rivers were already interconnected during Tang dynasty. I.e., Han infrastructure might have attracted HMs to the extent that they might have become Han...

Did anyone already try to relate Mien folklore to Dongtinghu (洞庭湖) or Taihu (太湖)?
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