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Variables related to women's somatic preferences of the male and female body
Topic Started: Mar 12 2010, 08:14:09 PM (474 Views)
Starbuck
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Beck, Ward-Hull & McLear
Journal of Personality and Social Psychology
Vol 34(6), Dec 1976, 1200-1210


Quote:
 
Abstract

Obtained 115 female undergraduates' somatic preferences in judging the male and female body and related them to Ss' own personality and background characteristics. Ss made paired comparison preference ratings of a set of 15 male and a set of 15 female profile silhouettes which varied in chest/breast, buttocks, and leg size. The group as a whole selected a male silhouette of moderate size (thickness) with small buttocks as the most attractive male physique. A moderate-sized male silhouette with a somewhat larger chest was also favored. This finding gives only partial support to the cultural belief that women prefer large chests in men, since the large-chested or "Atlas"-type physique received only slight endorsement. A moderate-sized female silhouette with small buttocks was chosen as the preferred female figure. In addition, an evenly proportioned and moderately built female silhouette was also highly valued. Larger buttocked male and female silhouettes were clearly disliked, but less definite preference patterns were obtained with regard to leg size.



http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&id=1978-31712-001&CFID=5711344&CFTOKEN=86055168
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black man
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p. 1207 of above mentioned article:
Quote:
 
Women selecting larger chested males are socially outgoing (not socially introverted), and express the need to ahieve academically. (...) they may (...) depend on others to make decisions (...) Men attracted to larger breasted women are socially independent and nonnurturant (...) They have a strong heterosexual orientation and date frequently. (...)

A general pattern of pasivity, indecision, and interest in religion is found in female and male subjects who select smaller chests/breasts in the opposite sex.

^Any comments on that, Starbuck?

Subjects: the 115 female students were from Butler University, Indianapolis. The male data are from Wiggins et al. 1968.
Edited by black man, Apr 6 2010, 03:57:08 PM.
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Starbuck
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black man
Apr 6 2010, 02:33:50 PM
p. 1207 of above mentioned article:
Quote:
 
Women selecting larger chested males are socially outgoing (not socially introverted), and express the need to ahieve academically. (...) they may (...) depend on others to make decisions (...) Men attracted to larger breasted women are socially independent and nonnurturant (...) They have a strong heterosexual orientation and date frequently. (...)

A general pattern of pasivity, indecision, and interest in religion is found in female and male subjects who select smaller chests/breasts in the opposite sex.

^Any comments on that, Starbuck?

Subjects: the 115 female students were from Butler University, Indianapolis. The male data are from Wiggins et al. 1968.
I can understand the first part, but the second part seems odd. If it's "western" samples, I suppose that it would depend also upon the generational gap as well as any ethnic particularities. I recall reading that European males more than Americans seemed to find favorable the large breasted type, but the article (whose title escapes me at the moment) seemed to link this to a dietary lack as youths for the men IIRC?

I don't necessarily agree either with the last statement about the behavioral patters of those preferring smaller chests/breasts in the opposite sex, primarily because from yet another article I glanced over, there was mention that working-class men did not have as particular a desire for the female breast overall as did white-collar men did, again IIRC.

In the long run, while the OT and your article shed light, so to speak, I'm a constant skeptic. I'm finding that IRL many people do not fit neatly into the groupings based on behavior toward the opposite sex and the somatotypes either they or their potential mate would possess.

As for me, well, I don't think of myself as "nonnurturant", but that, in the same breath, doesn't mean that it isn't true and that this isn't something I need to work on. I don't see what the particular issue is, though, with being "socially independent" to an extent, since sometimes people behave stupidly in a group when otherwise, as a mere individual, they would behave far more sensibly. Moreover, how they link this particular trait to what kind of men are attracted to large-breasted women is outside my understanding.

Additionally, the studies are so old that they may actually need some revision for current times. We live in an era when diets, exercise routines and chemical exposure as well as our own adaptation to various climatological changes (however major or minor) could be seen as much different from whatever forces were working on people back then. And that's not even mentioning about cultural factors in mate selection.
Edited by Starbuck, Apr 6 2010, 04:46:35 PM.
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black man
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Starbuck
Apr 6 2010, 04:45:32 PM
black man
Apr 6 2010, 02:33:50 PM
p. 1207 of above mentioned article:
Quote:
 
Women selecting larger chested males are socially outgoing (not socially introverted), and express the need to ahieve academically. (...) they may (...) depend on others to make decisions (...) Men attracted to larger breasted women are socially independent and nonnurturant (...) They have a strong heterosexual orientation and date frequently. (...)

A general pattern of pasivity, indecision, and interest in religion is found in female and male subjects who select smaller chests/breasts in the opposite sex.

^Any comments on that, Starbuck?

Subjects: the 115 female students were from Butler University, Indianapolis. The male data are from Wiggins et al. 1968.
I can understand the first part, but the second part seems odd. If it's "western" samples, I suppose that it would depend also upon the generational gap as well as any ethnic particularities. I recall reading that European males more than Americans seemed to find favorable the large breasted type, but the article (whose title escapes me at the moment) seemed to link this to a dietary lack as youths for the men IIRC?

I don't necessarily agree either with the last statement about the behavioral patters of those preferring smaller chests/breasts in the opposite sex, primarily because from yet another article I glanced over, there was mention that working-class men did not have as particular a desire for the female breast overall as did white-collar men did, again IIRC.

In the long run, while the OT and your article shed light, so to speak, I'm a constant skeptic. I'm finding that IRL many people do not fit neatly into the groupings based on behavior toward the opposite sex and the somatotypes either they or their potential mate would possess.

As for me, well, I don't think of myself as "nonnurturant", but that, in the same breath, doesn't mean that it isn't true and that this isn't something I need to work on. I don't see what the particular issue is, though, with being "socially independent" to an extent, since sometimes people behave stupidly in a group when otherwise, as a mere individual, they would behave far more sensibly. Moreover, how they link this particular trait to what kind of men are attracted to large-breasted women is outside my understanding.

Additionally, the studies are so old that they may actually need some revision for current times. We live in an era when diets, exercise routines and chemical exposure as well as our own adaptation to various climatological changes (however major or minor) could be seen as much different from whatever forces were working on people back then. And that's not even mentioning about cultural factors in mate selection.
It's actually your article, Variables related to women's somatic preferences of the male and female body by Beck et al.

You're right, working class was indeed mentioned, and they meant that those men who prefer flat breasts "hold fundamentalist religious and come from working-class families" (p. 1207).

I suppose, some trends only become visible when more than 100 or so people are asked. For ethnic outsiders like us they'll naturally continue to look odd though.
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Starbuck
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^^ It was just a minor note: it was "your article" only because you have access to the entire article, not only the abstract. ;)

I noticed that when I was attending high school, my attraction to breasts was high but not like it was afterward. In fact, I preferred women, from roughly my 9th through 12th grade years, to have shapely gluteal regions and toned legs, as well as an athletic build overall i.e. sans large-breasted condition. The woman I wrote poems for was the epitome of this.

I remember as a young child being fearful of leering at breasts too long, as I foolishly thought it was "immoral" and strange. The slightest glance at a cleavage seemed "incorrect". This feeling persisted for many years and could be linked to my religious-based, private school education. All of that apprehension quickly changed by middle school, leading up to the above-mentioned high school preference.

Now, however, I think I have better control/comprehension of how insignificant it was to become too preoccupied with moralizing the natural appearance of the female body in my eye. In fact I would venture to say that instead of one type of female somatotype I am attracted to, I could say that my options are more open, even if there has not been a corresponding need in me to desperately seek after a spouse at the present time. It was IMO kind of like you mentioned for something else: I can associate multiple good qualities to someone/something that has created a favorable impression in me, even if prior to this, I had not noticed them in quite the same way before.
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black man
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Starbuck
Apr 7 2010, 04:25:29 AM
I noticed that when I was attending high school, my attraction to breasts was high but not like it was afterward. In fact, I preferred women, from roughly my 9th through 12th grade years, to have shapely gluteal regions and toned legs, as well as an athletic build overall i.e. sans large-breasted condition. The woman I wrote poems for was the epitome of this.

I remember as a young child being fearful of leering at breasts too long, as I foolishly thought it was "immoral" and strange. The slightest glance at a cleavage seemed "incorrect". This feeling persisted for many years and could be linked to my religious-based, private school education. All of that apprehension quickly changed by middle school, leading up to the above-mentioned high school preference.

Now, however, I think I have better control/comprehension of how insignificant it was to become too preoccupied with moralizing the natural appearance of the female body in my eye. In fact I would venture to say that instead of one type of female somatotype I am attracted to, I could say that my options are more open, even if there has not been a corresponding need in me to desperately seek after a spouse at the present time. It was IMO kind of like you mentioned for something else: I can associate multiple good qualities to someone/something that has created a favorable impression in me, even if prior to this, I had not noticed them in quite the same way before.
I could imagine that men in some cultures need stronger visual stimuli to ejaculate than men in other cultures. The necessity could be a result of generally low interest in contacts with females and the natural lack of instinctive courtship display/sex drive.

As I mentioned elsewhere, some animals have a complicated courtship display which involves sexual markers like changes of skin colour (in males) and swellings (in females). Humans only change their behaviour during courtship display. However, it seems to me as if in some cultures the natural lack of female swellings was "compensated" by the development of manifested quasi-swellings (breasts). In this sense, I suppose that e.g. West Eurasian men can subconsciously view female breasts as "manifested invitations for sexual intercourse".

IMO female breasts are primarily obstacles. When I was first confronted with the idea of viewing breasts in a sexual context, I thought of phenotypes very different from those I considered to be a good-looking. This impression never changed. I have to totally ignore the features I usually evaluate in women in order to evaluate female breasts and, more generally, curvy body shapes. Although it's still possible to me to determine subjective rankings, these rankings don't have any relevance for my perception IRL. The reason is that, in order to be able to concentrate on the evaluation of something boring like the according female body parts, I'd have to "cancel", e.g,. the complete head.
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Starbuck
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Slightly off-topic, but I don't know exactly why the Apache were recorded to appreciate large-breasted females, or, for that matter, what they meant exactly by that. More specifically, I wonder if this affinity emerged in the post-contact period with Europeans or if it originated before that.
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black man
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Starbuck
Apr 8 2010, 03:31:03 AM
Slightly off-topic, but I don't know exactly why the Apache were recorded to appreciate large-breasted females, or, for that matter, what they meant exactly by that. More specifically, I wonder if this affinity emerged in the post-contact period with Europeans or if it originated before that.

Ford and Beach claim that the Apache perceive the female breasts as erogenous and therefore cover it. This might be the context. If it turns out that the Apache traditionally didn't cover female breasts, the meme complex will be post-Columbian, I guess.
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Starbuck
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black man
Apr 8 2010, 03:38:40 PM
Starbuck
Apr 8 2010, 03:31:03 AM
Slightly off-topic, but I don't know exactly why the Apache were recorded to appreciate large-breasted females, or, for that matter, what they meant exactly by that. More specifically, I wonder if this affinity emerged in the post-contact period with Europeans or if it originated before that.

Ford and Beach claim that the Apache perceive the female breasts as erogenous and therefore cover it. This might be the context. If it turns out that the Apache traditionally didn't cover female breasts, the meme complex will be post-Columbian, I guess.
Yes, I remember seeing this a little while ago. But I wonder if it isn't something to do with the breasts appearing to just be very full-looking while at same time being concealed. I noticed that here, recently, a group of three or four male mallards were chasing a female mallard who happened to display this same swollen, yet obviously feathered condition in what might be considered the avian's equivalent to our pectoral region. So it may not necessarily be large breasts but simply full, yet covered breasts that are appealing among peoples like the Apache. At any rate I do not recall that their dietary habits looked anything like those of most 'westerns' of our era, where hormones have altered food somewhat and certain, gross (as in "great" not "disgusting") medical abnormalities occur.
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