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Y chromosomes and mtDNA in Bronze Age Tarim basin
Topic Started: Mar 3 2010, 05:02:17 AM (412 Views)
ren
Advanced Member
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http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/02/y-chromosomes-and-mtdna-in-bronze-age.html

This really puts into question the nature of the proto-Indo-Iranians and the "Caucasoidness" of the Bronze Age IE in Siberia.

They were described as robust Europoids, but maybe this robustness and "Euroness" is just the Siberian aborigine part mixing with a gracile Caucasus type.

As for Indo-Iranians, maybe they were originally Uighur-like, and didn't get to be like Iranics and Indics until they absorbed the said regions. This would explain the high degree of Eastern mtDNA in certain Iranics and puts into question just when Eastern mtDNA entered South Asia.
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black man
The Right Hand
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Addendum:
hair colours of 30 individuals according to table S1:
- "black": 84, 135
- "brown-black": 104, 115, 120, 128, 134, 138
- "nut-brown": 93, 107, 131, 132, 136
- "brown": 110, 111, 112, 139
- "light brown": 109, 119
- "flaxen": 125
- no information: 85, 100, 102, 106, 108, 114, 117, 121, 127, 137

So most of them seem to have had non-black hair. (Don't know whether it was bleached by environmental factors.)

mtDNA profile:
C4: 100, 102, 106, 107, 109, 110, 111, 115, 127, 132, 135, 136, 138, 139 (14/20=70%)
M*: 117
R*: 120, 121, 131
H: 128
K: 119




ren
Mar 3 2010, 05:02:17 AM
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/02/y-chromosomes-and-mtdna-in-bronze-age.html

This really puts into question the nature of the proto-Indo-Iranians and the "Caucasoidness" of the Bronze Age IE in Siberia.



As for Indo-Iranians, maybe they were originally Uighur-like, and didn't get to be like Iranics and Indics until they absorbed the said regions. This would explain the high degree of Eastern mtDNA in certain Iranics and puts into question just when Eastern mtDNA entered South Asia.
The norm is that in populations with minor admixture the racial type of the majority will be aesthetically preferred. So a few generations after mixed breeding the population will look like before it.

More generally, I suspect that researchers often don't care about the ethnic backgrounds of their samples. As I mentioned at http://s6.zetaboards.com/man/single/?p=112423&t=528591 , Gibert et al. recently criticised those random sampling strategies.

But of course, other teams still goes on like before. Since you probably referred to Derenko et al. 2007, I'll mention the potential problems with the samples in that paper:
- "Persians from eastern Iran": these could be Hazaras (whose mother tongue is in fact Persian, no matter whether they're born in Iran or Afghanistan). Hazaras live in Iran for economic and other reasons (problems with Pashtun neighbours in Afghanistan etc).
- "Tajiks from Tajikistan": "Tajik" is not even an ethnic designation. It's an umbrella term for quite a lot of sedentary local groups, part of them consisting of iranicised Turks and/or Mongols. Assmilation can happen quickly. E.g., wikipedia mentions the so-called Sart Kalmyks who (or whose ancestors) started speaking Kyrgyz and believing in Islam at one point of their history. Even more, other western Mongols (Buzavs) became Cossacks.

Quote:
 
They were described as robust Europoids, but maybe this robustness and "Euroness" is just the Siberian aborigine part mixing with a gracile Caucasus type.


I once heard them saying in a documentary film that "the broadened jaw" would imply East Eurasian admixture in Central Eurasians. Having checked already relatively many samples of photos of living people as a layman, I wonder how much relevance that statement has. Naturally, I don't have many opportunities to take a look at skulls. Yet, my impression is, at least as for the living subjects, that the more eastern Mongols don't have particularly broadened jaws. In comparison with the cheekbones, the jaw is rather narrow, making the face as a whole look a bit V-shaped.

However, the faces of southern central Eurasian Turks and Iranics (Tajiks according to my samples, Persians and Kurds according to Starbuck's samples) tend to be relatively rectangular in female sex. Southern central Eurasian Turks are distinct from both modern West Eurasians and modern East Eurasians. But they strongly resemble Iranics (whose faces tend to be more elongated in the male sex) and Caucasians (whose cheekbones are similarly broad but whose jaws are apparently narrower in the male sex due to gracilisation/sexual selection).
Edited by black man, Jan 18 2011, 10:31:09 PM.
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