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Origin of Y-DNA haplogroup C2-M38
Topic Started: Aug 7 2009, 06:56:47 PM (1,689 Views)
Ebizur
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Murray P. Cox, Alan J. Redd, Tatiana M. Karafet et al., "A Polynesian Motif on the Y Chromosome: Population Structure in Remote Oceania," Human Biology, October 2007, v. 79, no. 5, pp. 525–535.

Polynesia

Rapanui: 9/9 = 100% C-P33

Tahiti: 1/25 = 4.0% C-M208*(xP33)
15/25 = 60.0% C-P33
16/25 = 64.0% C-M208 total

Samoa: 1/18 = 5.6% C-M208*(xP33)
12/18 = 66.7% C-P33
13/18 = 72.2% C-M208 total

Tonga: 4/12 = 33.3% C-P33

Polynesia total:
2/64 = 3.1% C-M208*(xP33)
40/64 = 62.5% C-P33
42/64 = 65.6% C-M208 total

Melanesia

Vanuatu (Maewo): 9/44 = 20.5% C-M38*(xM208, P33)
1/44 = 2.3% C-M208*(xP33)
10/44 = 22.7% C-M38 total

Solomon Islands: 0/32 C-M38
Bougainville (Nasioi): 0/10 C-M38
New Britain: 0/50 C-M38
Coastal New Guinea: 1/21 = 4.8% C-M38*(xM208, P33)
2/21 = 9.5% C-M208*(xP33)
3/21 = 14.3% C-M38 total
Highland New Guinea: 1/51 = 2.0% C-M38*(xM208, P33)

Melanesia total:
11/208 = 5.3% C-M38*(xM208, P33)
3/208 = 1.4% C-M208*(xP33)
14/208 = 6.7% C-M38 total

Micronesia: 1/16 = 6.3% C-M38*(xM208, P33)

Indonesia
Maluku Islands: 10/36 = 27.8% C-M38*(xM208, P33)

Sulawesi (West Province): 6/48 = 12.5% C-M38*(xM208, P33)

Timor: 4/12 = 33.3% C-M38*(xM208, P33)

Sumba: 202/352 = 57.4% C-M38*(xM208, P33)

Flores: 81/485 = 16.7% C-M38*(xM208, P33)

Mentawai: 1/74 = 1.4% C-M38*(xM208, P33)

Central-Eastern Indonesian (Maluku + West Sulawesi + Timor + Sumba + Flores) mean percentage C-M38*(xM208, P33): 29.5%

"We traced individual histories of C-P33 lineages using Y-chromosome STR
variation to tease apart recent Polynesian history. Clear spatial structuring is observable
in the network (Figure 2). From a broad geographic perspective the most
closely related C-M38*(xM208, P33) individuals were found on the islands of
Flores and Sulawesi in eastern Indonesia. The next most closely related men, C-M208*
(xP33) carriers, inhabit coastal Papua New Guinea. The most basal P33
lineage was found in Samoa, but it may represent a generic Western Polynesian
founding lineage given the limited number of Tongans in our sample (n = 12). For
similar reasons, related P33 lineages may some day be identified in Fiji (cf. Figure
2; Kayser et al. 2006), a likely staging ground for the settlement of Polynesia.
Regardless, this overall pattern fits a movement of ancestral Polynesians trending
generally eastward from (or through) Island Southeast Asia, along coastal New
Guinea, and out into the wider Pacific (Hurles et al. 2002; Kayser et al. 2003). We
predict that similar evolutionary patterns may be observed in other Y-chromosome
lineages carried by Polynesians, such as O-M122."

---------------------------------------------

Bing Su, Li Jin, Peter Underhill et al., "Polynesian origins: Insights from the Y chromosome," PNAS, vol. 97, no. 15, 8225–8228 (July 18, 2000).

Micronesia
Truk: 1/17 = 5.9% H1 (=Y*(xDE-DYS287, F-M89))
Majuro: 0/9 H1
Kiribati: 0/11 H1
Guam: 1/6 = 16.7% H1
Palau: 1/13 = 7.7% H1
Phonpei: 3/10 = 30.0% H1
Nauru: 0/7 H1

Micronesia total: 6/73 = 8.2% H1

-------------------------------------

Haplogroup C2a1-P33 seems to be exclusive to, as well as predominant among, Polynesians. It also seems to be a very young haplogroup; the time to coalescence of the haplotypes observed on a C2a1-P33 background may be as short as 1,500 years.

Haplogroup C2a-M208(xC2a1-P33) has been reported only with very low frequency among Polynesians (Tahitians and Samoans) and Melanesians (among inhabitants of coastal New Guinea and the island of Maewo in Vanuatu). Note that all these people, including coastal New Guineans and Ni-Vanuatu, probably speak Oceanic Austronesian languages.

Haplogroup C2-M38(xC2a-M208) has been found most commonly among inhabitants of central and eastern Indonesia, especially on the island of Sumba. It also seems to be quite common among Ni-Vanuatu on the island of Maewo (9/44 = 20.5% C-M38*(xM208, P33)), and it has been found rarely among coastal and highland New Guineans, Micronesians, and western Indonesians (Mentawai).

The most interesting thing about these data, in my opinion, is that nearly all carriers of haplogroup C2-M38 and its subclades seem to be Austronesian speakers. Is the hypothesis of a Palaeolithic, "Papuan" origin of this haplogroup really tenable?
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Ibra
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I tend to support the slow boat hypothesis where Austronesian people from the Asian mainland hybridized to some extent with indigenous Melanesians before colonizing the Pacific Islands. C2 and other indigenous Y-haplogroups must have been absorbed by Proto-Polynesian near or on Papua New Guinea before being taken to the pacific islands. Similarly a case can be made for E1b1b1 in the Middle East as being the result of absorption of a North African forger population prior to a Neolithic expansion out of the Levant.
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Ebizur
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Ibra
Aug 7 2009, 11:34:22 PM
I tend to support the slow boat hypothesis where Austronesian people from the Asian mainland hybridized to some extent with indigenous Melanesians before colonizing the Pacific Islands. C2 and other indigenous Y-haplogroups must have been absorbed by Proto-Polynesian near or on Papua New Guinea before being taken to the pacific islands. Similarly a case can be made for E1b1b1 in the Middle East as being the result of absorption of a North African forger population prior to a Neolithic expansion out of the Levant.
Please indicate what fact(s) you have taken as evidence for counting haplogroup C2-M38 among a set of "indigenous [Melanesian] Y-haplogroups."
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Ibra
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Unlike O3, C2 is not found in South China or Taiwan so I tend not to associate it with Proto-austronesians.
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Ebizur
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Ibra
Aug 8 2009, 01:55:19 AM
Unlike O3, C2 is not found in South China or Taiwan so I tend not to associate it with Proto-austronesians.
Have you assumed that the male speakers of Proto-Austronesian all should be closely related by patrilineal descent, and that the Y-DNA of every one of them should fit into a single haplogroup that has been named by geneticists already (e.g. O3-M122)? If so, how would you explain the high frequency of haplogroup O1a-M119 Y-DNA among the present aborigines of Taiwan and the absence (or nearly so) of this haplogroup among Micronesians and Polynesians? Would you posit that there should be a yet unidentified subclade of haplogroup O-M175 that would unite both O1a-M119 and O3-M122, and that both these subclades have developed among the Proto-Austronesians? In that case, how would you explain the high frequency of O3-M122 and O1a-M119 among modern Chinese populations? Is there any reason why the direction of haplogroup C2-M38 transfer should be assumed to have been from Papuan to Austronesian populations rather than the reverse?
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Ibra
Global Mod
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Yeah there is also O1a that I overlooked. O1a and O3a form the basis for the Austronesian expansion possibly along the western corridor from Southern china. Besides C2 there is the presence of K3 among Polynesians that strengthens the case for C2 being an indigenous contribution from Melanesians.
Edited by Ibra, Aug 8 2009, 08:57:39 AM.
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Ebizur
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Ibra
Aug 8 2009, 08:21:53 AM
Yeah there is also O1a that I overlooked. O1a and O3a form the basis for the Austronesian expansion possibly along the western corridor from Southern china.

Evidence, please.

Ibra
Aug 8 2009, 08:21:53 AM
Besides C2 there is the presence of K3 among Polynesians that strengthens the case for C2 being an indigenous contribution from Melanesians.

This is a non sequitur. You need to check your logic.
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Ibra
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JCA
 
Evidence, please.


Hui Li al.
 
Our results show that the Daic populations are closer to the Western Austronesian populations in paternal lineages than any other ethnic groups in East Asia are. The STR diversity of the Y chromosome haplogroup O1a-M119, the major haplogroup among the Daic and Western Austronesian populations, shows that Taiwan and ISEA, two groups of Western Austronesian, derived from the Daic independently of each other. Therefore, it is most likely that the ISEA populations mainly originated in the region around the Tonkin Gulf, the homeland of the Daic, and migrated to Indonesia through the Vietnam corridor. In contrast, the Taiwan aborigines migrated from mainland China directly. Our results indicate that a super-phylum, which includes Taiwan aborigines, Daic, and Malayo-Polynesians, is genetically educible.


If not in Melanesia (the consensus of most authors) where do you propose that C2 arose? Indonesia?
Edited by Ibra, Aug 8 2009, 10:20:02 PM.
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black man
The Right Hand
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"Patterns of Y-chromosome diversity intersect with the Trans-New Guinea hypothesis" by Mona et al. might be interesting for you.
Edited by black man, Aug 8 2009, 10:30:51 PM.
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