| Kra-Dai/Tai-Kadai origins of the city name "Suzhou"? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 29 2009, 11:12:17 AM (1,067 Views) | |
| ren | May 29 2009, 11:12:17 AM Post #1 |
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2011-11-16 A complete list of how the name was written variously is at the new board: http://eeas.createaforum.com/the-(sino-tibetan)-(austronesian)-theory/archaeolinguistics-of-the-ancient-name-of-suzhou/ Please don't tell people about the new board as it is not yet open. 2011-6-5 http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home/prescript/article/clao_0153-3320_1991_num_20_2_1345 The old name of Suzhou was 姑苏 (Gusu in Mandarin; "Klaa-sa" in Archaic Chinese). The above paper claims the archaic name to be of Kradai origin, similar to Kra-Dai "kra-sa", but further searching (listed below) seems to make this theory suspect. 姑苏 as a place name was non-Northern Sinitic and non-Chu Sinitic, but to exclude it as non-Sinitic entirely is leaping too much. The "su" part has been handed down. UpDate 2011-6-5 http://zhidao.baidu.com/question/27055553 That the city was named after a legendary hero. Either way, the Kradai connection seems tenuous. UPDATE: 2011-6-4 The "su" in Suzhou 蘇 seems to be the word for "grass" in the regions of Chu, Wu, and southern Zhou states, so it did have a semantic meaning. And from the sound (supposedly "sa" back then), it could be etymologically related to the common Sinitic word for "grass". So, it might not be Kradai at all. In fact, my opinion now is that Kradai originated in the Pearl Delta region, and were never as far north as the Yangtze Delta. 蘇,芥,草也。(漢書曰樵蘇而爨。蘇猶蘆,語轉也。)江淮南楚之間曰蘇, 自關而西或曰草,或曰芥。(或言菜也。)南楚江湘之間謂之莽。(嫫母。)蘇 亦荏也。(荏屬也。爾雅曰蘇桂荏也。)關之東西或謂之蘇,或謂之荏。周鄭之 間謂之公蕡。(音翡翠。今江東人呼荏為●,音魚。)沅湘之南或謂之●。(今 長沙人呼野蘇為●,音車轄。沅,水名,在武陵。)其小者謂之●葇。(堇葇也, 亦蘇之種類,因名云。) http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/27294/pg27294.html Edited by ren, Nov 16 2012, 02:59:21 AM.
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