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Korean American beauty ideals and real phenotypes
Topic Started: Apr 3 2008, 09:33:59 PM (3,304 Views)
black man
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(Changed topic title from "East Asian beauty ideals and real phenotypes" into "Korean American beauty ideals and real phenotypes" in 2018. Contents below unchanged.)




Since concrete data from East Asia are not available to me, I'll start this topic with a reference to the aesthetic preferences of Korean and Japanese Californian* samples (both n=50).

1) Forehead: 36% of the Korean American sample (vs 12% of the Japanese American one) prefer a face in which the forehead height makes up more than 1/3 of the facial height.

2) Eyebrows: half of the KA sample and nobody in the JA sample prefers the "peak" of the eyebrow in the middle. (The others prefer it more laterally.)

3) Upper eyelid crease: desired in both with the excpetion of 4 KAs. Additionally, 78% of the KAs desired a parallel crease as opposed to a "medial converger". (What is the latter supposed to be?!)

4) Epicanthus: aversion in 78% of the KAs but in none of the JAs.

5) Nose: most prefer intermediate nose shapes, with the exception of 4 KAs who desired the nose to be as high as it's broad. 4 women also desired a hook nose in contrast to the 96 others, who prefer straight noses. Oval nostrils are desired by 70% of the JAs and 28% of the KAs. The rest prefers triangular ones.

6) Lips: KAs tend to prefer full lips and Japanese thin ones.

* Dobke et al. 2006: "Facial Aesthetic Preferences Among Asian Women: Are All Oriental Asians the Same?"

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Unfortunately, the real anthropometric data of the above mentioned women are not available. However, there are the data of 72 Korean American women** as well as data from Korea and Japan.

1) Forehead: Average height (tr-g) of the Korean American sample is 57,7mm. This is high in comparison to Euro-American forehead heights.

2) Eyebrows: no according data.

3) Upper eyelid crease: I might add the data from Korea and Japan if a reader is interested.

4) Epicanthus: definitions vary. But especially in Koreans it should be wide-spread. See http://z6.invisionfree.com/man/index.php?showtopic=1774 .

5) Nose: the nasal index of average Korean Americans is far below 100 when one measures from the felt nasion (like in Choe's study). However, when measured from the sellion, the Korean female nose (in Korea at least) is tendentially low.

6) Lips: total lip thickness of Korean American women is 19,1mm, one milimetre more than in Euro-Americans.

** Choe et al. 2004: "The Korean American Woman’s Face"

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related topic: http://z6.invisionfree.com/man/index.php?showtopic=1875

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I'll try to find some more data if there is interest.

Now, comments, please.
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Jhangora
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black man,Apr 3 2008
09:33 PM
I'll try to find some more data if there is interest.


I would like to see pictures to get an idea of East Asian beauty ideals.I understand you are very good at Anthropological Measurements {don't know the correct term}but I fail to make any sense out of them.I am able to understand pictures better.

black man
 
Now, comments, please.


That was my comment.

Coming back to pictures the two most beautiful South Korean actresses according to my judgement are.

Posted Image

SONG HYE GYO and...

Posted Image

KIM TAE HUI

I wasn't brought up in East Asia and though I agree different human groups look different,it is very debatable how different beauty ideals are or can be.I think what is beautiful is beautiful however media does influence us.
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black man
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Jhangora,Apr 4 2008
05:09 AM
black man,Apr 3 2008
09:33 PM
I'll try to find some more data if there is interest.


I would like to see pictures to get an idea of East Asian beauty ideals.I understand you are very good at Anthropological Measurements {don't know the correct term}but I fail to make any sense out of them.I am able to understand pictures better.


This is one in accordance with the statistics mentioned above: Posted Image
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Jhangora
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black man
Apr 4 2008, 05:44 AM
This is one in accordance with the statistics mentioned above: Posted Image

I did not mention any statistics.

The multiplication sign u posted does not look beautiful at all.It's very small and one line is markedly thicker than the other,which disturbs the symmetry.Ofcourse we are deviating from the topic but I would like to post some pictures of more beautiful multiplication signs.

Posted Image

This one is small too but the colour is more visible as the lines are thicker and roundness adds to the beauty plus it has the shadow effect.


Posted Image

This one is infact a piece or art.I don't like modern/abstract art much but atleast this painting has some form.

Posted Image

This one is smashing.black man if u tilt ur head about 30 degrees either to the right or left you will be able to makeout the multiplication sign made by the green and blue squares at the centre.
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black man
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Sorry for mishap in my post above. Here is the real one in accordance with Dobke's statistics:
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Jhangora
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Well I don't know who Dobke is and whom he/she got the stats from but I did notice that older South Koreans have a markedly smaller built and flatter faces,noses than younger ones.

There has been a huge economic turnaround in that country in the past 40 years and that has changed living conditions and dietary habits a lot.I am sure one would notice the difference simply by comparing pictures of movie stars over the decades.The 70's and 80's stars look much more smaller and flatter oriental than S Korean movie stars of today.

Ofcourse I did also notice that girls living in cities have on an average sharper features and slimmer built than country girls.I might not be wrong if sharper features may in part be due to cosmetic surgery.

Also S Korean girls apply too much of compact/face powder.I don't know if it's due to carryover from previous generations or their unfamiliarity with the art of make up.

I wanted to post some pics of S Korean actresses from 70's and 80's but don't know their name maybe u cud find their pics and then see the difference.
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black man
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ok, thanks for your contribution, Jhangora.

Dobke's photo and statistics are from California. Is it (the left half of the picture) similar to what you observed in the more recently produced Korean television programms?
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Jhangora
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black man
Apr 6 2008, 05:31 PM
ok, thanks for your contribution, Jhangora.


You are welcome black man.

black man
 
Dobke's photo and statistics are from California. Is it (the left half of the picture) similar to what you observed in the more recently produced Korean television programms?


Don't want to deviate from the topic but won't it be more appropriate if the East Asian beauty ideals were derived from research in East Asia?

Well it's been around 18 months since I left {or was deported from} S Korea and I was never a fan of TV soaps even while I was in India but I think that pic is not what S Korean males would desire.Infact there is a S Koran sopa on on Indian national TV {the Govt channel}.It's based on some historical period.The desirable ladies on that soap and I'm sure on current S Korean soaps and movies have a much narrower face and slimmer and pointed nose.
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black man
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Quote:
 
Don't want to deviate from the topic but won't it be more appropriate if the East Asian beauty ideals were derived from research in East Asia?


I actually mentioned this problem in my first post. On the one hand, the data are called "East Asian" in the headline of Dobke because an influence of (local) East Asian beauty ideals on the two studied Californian samples is thought to be likely. On the other hand, there is of course the possibility that some attitudes typical for the Californian samples are specific for Californians (Americans) of East Asian ancestry only.

Quote:
 
Well it's been around 18 months since I left {or was deported from} S Korea and I was never a fan of TV soaps even while I was in India but I think that pic is not what S Korean males would desire.Infact there is a S Koran sopa on on Indian national TV {the Govt channel}.It's based on some historical period.The desirable ladies on that soap and I'm sure on current S Korean soaps and movies have a much narrower face and slimmer and pointed nose.


The few anthropometric statistics from East Asia available to me imply that Korean women in some East Asian locations are on average narrow-faced. However, Choe reported an intermediate facial breadth for Korean American women. IMO it is likely that predominately narrow-faced people aesthetically prefer their narrowfacedness, while predominately broad-faced people aesthetically prefer their broad-facedness.

Then there still remain the high forehead, the full lips and the eyebrows without a "peak" in the "lateral third".
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Jhangora
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black man
Apr 8 2008, 06:28 PM
IMO it is likely that predominately narrow-faced people aesthetically prefer their narrowfacedness, while predominately broad-faced people aesthetically prefer their broad-facedness.


Intuition tells me that as far as females are concerned a below average facial width would be considered more beautiful across cultures.Although I am broad faced and generally find broader faced beautiful females more attractive.Narrower faced females seem more fragile to me.

black man
 
Then there still remain the high forehead, the full lips and the eyebrows without a "peak" in the "lateral third".


Which "lateral third" are we talking about?

This data just talks about facial measurements.I would also be interested in knowing about colour prefernces of East Asian men and women.From what I could gather older S Koreans would give more preference to how hard working a person is whereas younger people would really prefer white skin;fairer the skin better their liking for the person.

Ofcourse such tendencies can be observed in other cultures too but due to the rapid economic development S Korea makes a good laboratory.

I don't know how their old people would behave had they been young and economically affluent today but they did seem more indifferent to colour bias than the present generation.

And what about the wimpy/metrosexual look.Any light thrown on that aspect of beauty in East Asia.

Posted Image

I know the pic is of a Chinese singer.As China catches up with Japan and S Korea in terms of economic development I'm sure Chinese beauty ideals would come closer to those of these two countries.If I am correct small breasts are considered beautiful in East Asia.Now I don't want to throw this topic offline but I guess it's related to the metrosexual look in East Asia.
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black man
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Jhangora
Apr 9 2008, 05:19 AM
Intuition tells me that as far as females are concerned a below average facial width would be considered more beautiful across cultures.Although I am broad faced and generally find broader faced beautiful females more attractive.Narrower faced females seem more fragile to me.

Even to me as a narrow-faced man e.g. the Iberian women are already too narrow-faced and thus they IMO look too fragile. But the impression of narrow-facedness might in women be subjectively reduced by women's typical lack of facial height.

Quote:
 
Which "lateral third" are we talking about?


It is the area under "2" on the attached picture at http://z6.invisionfree.com/man/index.php?s...dpost&p=3326813

(Click on it to enlarge it.)

I think, this can be better seen in the left of Dienekes' examples:
http://bp0.blogger.com/_ro2ijOk8JWc/R-z9jh...leftorright.jpg

According to Dobke et al., Korean Americans prefer a different type of eyebrows than Japanese Americans do. But the picture does not seem to represent this type. Either more straight or more elevated in the middle, I'm unsure because they do not describe it clearly. The left half face has a straight eyebrow, while the description of eyebrow shape prefered by half of the KA sample is "shape of the eyebrow peak: midpupil". Maybe you can guess what Dobke et al. mean exactly:
Posted Image

Quote:
 
This data just talks about facial measurements.I would also be interested in knowing about colour prefernces of East Asian men and women.From what I could gather older S Koreans would give more preference to how hard working a person is whereas younger people would really prefer white skin;fairer the skin better their liking for the person.


The use of bleaching creme or powder in Korea might be an indicator for the intensity and spread of change of preferences. However, I didn't come across any scientific statistics as for this aspect of the topic, yet.

Quote:
 

And what about the wimpy/metrosexual look.Any light thrown on that aspect of beauty in East Asia.

Posted Image

I know the pic is of a Chinese singer.As China catches up with Japan and S Korea in terms of economic development I'm sure Chinese beauty ideals would come closer to those of these two countries.If I am correct small breasts are considered beautiful in East Asia.Now I don't want to throw this topic offline but I guess it's related to the metrosexual look in East Asia.


No problem. I split it: http://z6.invisionfree.com/man/index.php?s...=0#entry3327754
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