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Kumandins; Кумандинцы
Topic Started: Nov 26 2006, 06:28:03 AM (2,486 Views)
black man
The Right Hand
[ *  *  * ]
most recent addendum:

mtDNA hg profile according to Dulik et al. 2012:
n (total sample)=52

n (EEA)=39=75%
A4: 1 (same ht as in one Altai kizhi)
B4b1: 2 (1 ht, the same as in the other nine Altai samples of Dulik et al. 2012)
C4*: 9 (2 hts, both of them being present in the Tubalar samples of Dulik et al. as well)
C5b: 12 (2 hts, the one present in 11 Kumandin samples being present in the Altai kizhi, Chelkan and Tubalar samples of Dulik et al. as well)
D4b1: 3 (1 ht present in the Altai kizhi and Tubalar samples of Dulik et al. as well)
D4m: 5 (1 ht present in the Altai kizhi, Chelkan and Tubalar samples of Dulik et al. as well)
D5c2: 2 (1 ht present in the Chelkan samples of Dulik et al. as well)
F1a1: 1 (present in three Chelkan samples of Dulik et al. as well)
F1b: 1 (present four Altai kizhi samples and in seven Chelkan samples of Dulik et al. as well)
N9a: 1 (present in the Chelkan samples of Dulik et al. particular)
R9b1: 2 (present in one Chelkan sample of Dulik et al. as well)

n (U)=7=13,5%
U4b1b: 2 (1 ht present in the Altai kizhi, Chelkan and Tubalar samples of Dulik et al. as well)
U5a1: 5 (1 ht present in the Altai kizhi, Chelkan and Tubalar samples of Dulik et al. as well)

n (WEA): 6=11,5%
H8: 3 (1 ht, present in the Altai kizhi and Tubalar samples of Dulik et al. as well)
T1a: 1
X2e: 2 (present in the Altai kizhi samples of Dulik et al. as well)

Moreover, what appears to be y hg N in Kumandins splits from what appears to be y hg N in Chelkans in fig. 6.2 of Dulik 2011 implying a common Samodian substratum in both of these ethnographic groups. Further, the Kumandin hts derive from a Altai kizhi ht as if the ancestors of the Kumandins had once lived where there are nowadays Altai kizhi, i.e., to the south of the present-day Kumandin settlements.

So one might conclude that the Samodians of the Altai region probably belonged to different communities before they adopted a Turkic lingua franca respectively. That said, the differences between Kumandin and Chelkan y hg profiles and mtDNA hg profiles seem to imply differences between Samodian and Yeniseian substrata as well with the former being more present in the Kumandins and the latter being more present in the Chelkans. One can even emphasise this because the two major mtDNA hg C hts in the Kumandins are significantly different from the two major mtDNA hg C hts in the Altai kizhi. While the former are in paragroup C* and hg C5b, the latter are in hgs C4a1c and C4b3.




old addendum:

M73 was found in Kumandin males. Other carriers were detected (or are supposed to exist among:
- Teleuts (Kharkov 2009)
- Altaian Kazaks
- Pakistani Hazaras
- Kazakstani Kazaks




As for more general information on Turkic-speakers of the Altai-Sayan region see also: http://z6.invisionfree.com/orient/index.php?showtopic=718




http://lingsib.unesco.ru/en/languages/kumandy.shtml.htm
Quote:
 
The Kumandin language is a dialect of the Altai language, but according to some Turkic scholars it may be considered a separate language in the Khakas subgroup of the Uygur-Oghuz group of the Turkic languages.

(...)

The Kumandin language is close in some phonetic features to the Shor and partly to the Khakas language.


about Ob-Ugrian/Samoyedic linguistic substratum:
http://www.nsu.ru/ip/block.php?action=nitem&sid=1&iid=271
Quote:
 
Результаты экспериментально-фонетических исследований косвенно свидетельствуют о том, что северо-алтайские этнические образования сформировались в результате ассимиляции тюрками предшествующего нетюркского населения угро-самодийского типа. Северные алтайцы, в том числе и кумандинцы, относятся к числу популяций с весьма сложным этническим составом.

(...)

Сравнение данных по языку кумандинцев с результатами экспериментально-фонетических исследований по ряду самодийских и обско-угорских языков и диалектов свидетельствуют о том, что основные артикуляционно-базовые характеристики (...) являются также типологически общими и для самодийских и обско-угорских языков.





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http://ethnography.omskreg.ru/image.php?id=453
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see also http://geo.1september.ru/articlef.php?ID=200700907
and http://mustagclub.ru/blog/fotofakt_altay/
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