| North Eurasian y-chromosome map; (of paper by Stepanov et al.) | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 16 2006, 10:42:33 AM (1,017 Views) | |
| black man | Nov 16 2006, 10:42:33 AM Post #1 |
|
The Right Hand
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
ЭВОЛЮЦИЯ И ФИЛОГЕОГРАФИЯ ЛИНИЙ Y-ХРОМОСОМЫ ЧЕЛОВЕКА 2006 (EVOLUTION AND PHYLOGEOGRAPHY OF HUMAN Y-CHROMOSOMAL LINEAGES) link Included in the map are samples from Europe, North, Central and East Asia. Only approximate percentages of hgs C* to R* are indicated. Also, it is not clear which markers were tested for which populations. In some populations (e.g. Chechens with a high percentage of F* and northern Han with a high percentage of C*) markers (e.g. J[xJ2], as in the paper of Nasidze et al., and Y[xI,N,P,Q] in the Han sample mentioned by Stepanov et al.) might have been left out and percentages simply deduced from literature. The high percentage of "P*" in the Caucasus samples seems to be a result of just pooling P(xR1,R2) with the former P1 (now R2!) from Nasidze's samples of Chechenians, Georgians, Azeris and Armenians. However, some frequencies indicated in the map of Stepanov et al. might make further information about the according populations interesting: Hg C* in the northern Han sample: it's not impossible that it's really hg C from sinicised Mongols since the medieval "starcluster" variant of C(xC3c) was already detected in Han from "inner" Mongolia by Zerjal et al. Hg D* in Kyrgyz, Uighurs and southern Altaians as well as in Koreans and Nivkhs. The former is likely to be related to "D" (i.e. D1 and D3) in neighbouring Mongols and "Tibetans". The latter is likely to belong to D2: Hammer et al. identified "D" in Koreans as D2 and Nivkhs might have got their "D" from the formerly neighbouring (proto-)Ainus, among whom D2 as the main hg of two small samples was found. Hg E* in southern Altaians, Tuvans, "Siberian Tatars" and Dolgans: possible link to Iranic expansion? Hg G* in "Tibetans", Uighurs and Dolgans: links to the Caucasus or to SW Asia? Hg H* in "Moldavians". Because of the very high frequency of hg H* the entire sample is not unlikely to be from gypsies, i.e. not from ethnic Moldavians. Hg I* in Tuvans, (Mongolian) Mongols and northern Han: SW Asian or European origin? Hg J* in Altaians, Tuvans and Manchus: ancient Iranic influences? Hg L* in Tajiks and Uighurs: how ancient and in which relationship to South Asian "L"? Hg N* in "Tibetans" and northern Han. Hammer et al. showed that "N" in non-"Altaic"/non-Siberian populations does not need to to belong to those "N"-sublineages typical for Siberia (N2, N3). An update of the y hg N tree would be interesting. Hg O* in Inuits, Nivkhs, Forest Nenets, Kets and Kazakhs. The Siberian samples (especially the ones from Inuits, Kets and Nivkhs) could become interesting as for the age estimation of (non-"Altaic") hg O in Siberia. The dominance of hg O in the Kazakh sample could be due to low sample size but it could likewise imply a different local population history since Kazakhs are very wide-spread in Central Asia and local groups probably have partly different origins. Hg P* in Uzbeks and Tuvans. This is really P(xR,Q) according to Stepanov et al. However, it is not described which markers were tested, i.e. "P" could still turn out to belong to "R" or "Q": according to "isogg.org" on Oct 16th 2006, the markers M207 (UTY2), M306 (S1), S4, S8 and S9 are relevant for the detection of hg R and MEH2, M242 as well as P36 are relevant for the detection of hg Q. Usually, when researchers tested for "R" and "Q", they so far only used M207 and M242 regarding Eurasian populations. Hg R* in "Tibetans", northern Han and Manchus: SW Asian, South Asian or Central Asian origins? Hg Q* in Nivkhs, Yukaghirs, Chukchs, Koryaks, Enets, Nenets, Evens, Evenks, Mongolians, Tuvans, Altaians, Tatars, Selkups, Kets, Uzbeks, Kyrgyz and Uighurs all needs to be tested for the downstream markers so far found in Eurasia. |
![]() |
|
| Maju | Nov 16 2006, 04:39:39 PM Post #2 |
![]()
sorgina
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
There must be some P(xQ,R) somewhere. Central Asia has long since been speculated as the area where P split. Any other candidate?
If by "Iranic" you mean Indo-Iranians doesn't seem to make much sense. If you mean Persian empires it doesn't either (they never reached so far north). It could be erratics from the Silk Road (??) or "Es" that accompanied their "D" cousins in their first expansion eastward (??). There seems to be quite a few "western" haplogroups in all Central Asia, what in a sense it's not strange, considering the forth and back fluxes of its prehistory and history, plus its role in the Silk Road. It's just in the middle of all. |
|
Chaos never died, the Empire was never founded. | |
![]() |
|
| black man | Nov 16 2006, 11:33:48 PM Post #3 |
|
The Right Hand
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Underhill et al. (2000) reported that all of their "E" from "Central Asia and Siberia" (n=4 of 184) belongs to hg E3b. In case of co-migration of "D" and something else one would rather expect "D" to migrate with "DE(xD,E)" than with "E3b". => http://hpgl.stanford.edu/publications/NG_2000_v26_p358.pdf Moreover, in western Central Asia "E" is much more common than "D" while in High Asia "E" it's vice versa. I.e., it's very probable that "D" and "E" arrived independently from each other. => http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/98/18/10244.pdf
Depends on hg age and the according prehistoric regional climates. But judging from current spread, there where South Asia borders to Central Asia/SW Asia or (northern) South Asia in general. The samples from South Asia were so far only tested for the markers M242 (Q) and M207 ( R) but not for e.g. P36, which could be an upstream marker to M242 within hg Q. Maybe there is more marker frequency information in the supplemental material of Mohyuddin et al. => http://z6.invisionfree.com/orient/index.php?showtopic=1031 . But I don't know whether their supplemental material is all online available. Ironically, some researchers write their papers as if they had published the data though the latter remains inofficial. |
![]() |
|
| Maju | Nov 17 2006, 03:06:55 AM Post #4 |
![]()
sorgina
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Ok. Thanks for the info. The mystery on P* remains though... :rolleyes: |
|
Chaos never died, the Empire was never founded. | |
![]() |
|
| Don | Nov 22 2006, 02:58:38 AM Post #5 |
|
Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Is NHA Northern Han with 0% "O". I find that hard to believe ... Maybe the "KAZ" and "NHA" Blocks were switched. |
![]() |
|
| Maju | Nov 22 2006, 12:38:27 PM Post #6 |
![]()
sorgina
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
That sounds pretty logical. Good point. |
|
Chaos never died, the Empire was never founded. | |
![]() |
|
| black man | Nov 23 2006, 02:37:56 AM Post #7 |
|
The Right Hand
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
Interesting idea. Such things quite often happen to the figures of papers by geneticists, it seems to me. But actually, the percentage of hg C in the "KAZ" sample on the map is still quite high, making it even more typically "Altaic"-looking than the Manchu sample. So my guess is still that the "NHA" sample was simply not tested for hgs F*, K* and O*. I think that the northern Han sample must have been a control sample for Stepanov et al. to check the degree of influence of East European (hgs I* and R*) and "steppe" (hgs N*, Q* and R*) "elements" on northern Han. The other hgs might have been uninteresting from the researchers' point of view in such a context. (I.e., IMO C=Y[xI,N,Q,R]=C+D+F[xI]+O+K[xN,O,P] in the NHA sample.) Hgs I*, N*, Q* and R* seem to have been tested in most samples since they even occur in West European (N*, Q*) and East Asian samples (I*, R*). |
![]() |
|
| ren | Oct 27 2007, 02:54:21 PM Post #8 |
|
Advanced Member
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
If JCA's info. is correct, P36 seems to be downstream to M242. We can be finally sure of what is P* and not Q. |
![]() |
|
| black man | Oct 28 2007, 03:12:22 AM Post #9 |
|
The Right Hand
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]()
|
The Central Asian and Siberian data indicated in Stepanov's map are probably from Kharkov's map and were obviously tested for th according markers. However, the same cannot necessarily said about some samples appearing in the peripheries of the map. I favour Nasidze's "Testing hypotheses of language replacement in the Caucasus: evidence from the Y-chromosome" as for four of the five Caucasus samples. The two remaining aberrations could be the result of drawing errors, which happen quite often in my experience with maps in papers on population genetics. Or they are the result of a few samples having been added to Nasidze's: Armenians: Nasidze (n=100): E: 6; F*: 18; G: 11; I: 5; J2: 24; K*: 7; P*: 2; R1*: 19; R1a1: 6; P1: 2. Stepanov: E: <10%; F: 10-25%; G: 10-25%; I: <10%; J: 25-50%; K: <10%; P: <10%; R: 25-50%. (one aberrant value in the map: more hg J) Azerbaijanians: N (n=72): 6% E; 11% F*; 18% G; 3% I; 31% J2; 11% K*; 11% R1*; 7% R1a1; 3% P1. S: <10% E; 10-25% F; 10-25% G; <10% I; 25-50% J; 10-25% K; <10% P; 10-25% R. Chechens: N (n=19): 5% C; 37% F*; 5% G; 26% J2; 10%K*; 15,8% P1, 5% R1a1. S: C: <10%; 25-50% F; <10% G; 25-50% J; 10-25% K; 10-25% P; <10% R. Georgians: N (n=77): 3% E; 14% F*; 31% G; 21% J2; 4% I; 3% K*; 3% P*; 1% P1; 10% R1*; 10% R1a1. S: E: <10%; F: 10-25%; G: 10-25%; I: <10%; J: 25-50%; K*: <10%; P: <10%; R: 10-25%. ^ (one aberrant value in the map: less hg G) Lezgians: N (n=12, not typed for M201): 17% E; 58% F*; 17% R1*; 8% R1a1. S: 25-50% F; 25-50% G; 25-50% K; <10% R. ^ (not the same sample) ------------- The "Dungan" sample is placed within China, unlike the Uighur sample. This might imply that a Hui sample from a Chinese study was taken since in Chinese studies markers downstream to the "P" markers are often not tested for. |
![]() |
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| « Previous Topic · Y-chromosome: CF · Next Topic » |





![]](http://z6.ifrm.com/static/1/pip_r.png)



