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Classify Ni Ni?
Topic Started: Dec 20 2017, 05:07:53 AM (916 Views)
anthrobuff
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Classify Ni Ni?

I suppose the most unusual features for someone from Nanjing would be the protruding mouth, thick lips and wide mouth?

How common is this phenotype for Jiangsu and surrounds?

Like how Zhang Bin Bin in a previous thread had thick lips and was from Wuxi, Jiangsu.

People say that Shu Qiís (from Fujian where Baiyue features are significantly more pronounced) big mouth is a sign of her Baiyue ancestry so is this an expression of Ni Niís Wuyue genes?

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Edited by anthrobuff, Dec 20 2017, 05:29:48 AM.
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black man
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I suppose, you mean the relatively large upper lateral incisors. AFAIK, they are common in Thai. But they're not specifically "southern" since Amerindians often have them, too. Rather, they might be "Australoid". They might also appear to be larger than they really are because her face as a whole is small.

Posted Image

The side profile is IMO more or less typical for female Jiangnan white-collar workers, especially considering forehead and mouth:
Posted Image

But even among Jiangnan white-collar workers there are people who look more stereotypically "southern". E.g., the nose would be shorter, flatter and broader. And the eye region can be less in accordance with northern Han beauty ideals.
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anthrobuff
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I dunno, I was just watching Wu Kong with Ni Ni in a lead role and her full lips definitely stood out. Not used to seeing full lips on East Asian actors who are normally selected for thin lips.

Anyway, I guess I was just wondering because I have full lips which I am sometimes a little self-conscious of and I never see it represented in the media except on people who are also derided for such features such as African Americans, Cantonese, Fujianese or Southeast Asians.

If it's not uncommon for Jiangnanese who have a higher status in the Chinese hierarchy, then it's not so bad I guess. :/
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black man
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There could also be general influences from all over Asia right now which might occasionally confirm rather than weaken local preferences. Koreans are northern East Asians like northern Han are but the former don't seem to mind full lips in contrast to the latter.

On Korean media:
http://www.anthropedia.science/topic/8685320/1/
http://www.anthropedia.science/topic/8656446/1/
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anthrobuff
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Full lips are currently trendy in Hollywood right now too with many female celebs getting collagen to enhance their lips to a full pout.

However thatís a fad that will fade and I never found Angelina Jolie pleasant anyway. But itís interesting how fashion changes and can glorify what was previously considered grotesque.
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anthrobuff
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Amerindians are a mixture of Indo-European and Siberian, according to new research.
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black man
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Lips like Angelina Jolie's sporadically occur in eastern Europeans. But they're IMO most common in Africans. If liberal US Americans (like apparently many okcupid users) keep on intermarrying, African admixture will be mainstream in the USA like it is in Brazil. Brazil is btw also quite a large and urbanised country. So that could be more relevant than just one trend.
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black man
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anthrobuff
Dec 20 2017, 01:01:08 PM
Amerindians are a mixture of Indo-European and Siberian, according to new research.
Well, large incisors are definitely not an Indo-European feature. Indo-Europeans tend to have very small teeth like all present-day West Eurasians tend to do.

Plus, in case that you refer to pre-colonial Amerindians...

We've been following academic publications on physical anthropology and genetics for more than a decade. So you can trust in our judgment.

There are several reasons for which certain internet forums tend to misrepresent Amerindians.

One is obviously that Amerindians went to the Americas via Bering Strait from what is now Russia during the Palaeolithic. So...
- most people are ignorant because they don't really care about archaeological background knowledge
- most people in the English-speaking world are ignorant because much of the relevant literature was written in Russian
- most people are ignorant because they care less about the many skeleton-related aspects of physical anthropology

Another reason is omnipresent racism especially in the internet (i.e., it's an internet phenomenon in particular). In essence, Western racists claim their race to be the most pure-bred race because...
- they have the opportunity to do so in the internet in particular (normal people wouldn't waste their time like that)
- racists from different parts of the Eurocentric world accumulate their claims on many different parts of the world and, thus, misrepresent non-Whites in general
- they try to look like a more ancient race (in the sense of an "older brother") to non-Whites in order to justify bullying the latter and ordering them around
- they try to reinterpret all traces of minor ancient non-European admixtures as quintessentially "White" and/or "Caucasoid" in order to look more pure-bred and in order to interpret all kinds of cultural achievements of non-Whites as being due to White admixtures at the same time

Apart from that, there are historical reasons:
- certain people want to euphemise if not totally deny genocides in the cases of Amerindians by claiming the latter would just have been a weaker version of Caucasoids etc
- racist forum administrations are aware of that and, thus, try to prevent non-Whites from communicating with other non-Whites (all friends are made via certain people as wannabe-successors of colonial masters like "all paths lead to Rome")
- during the period of decolonisation Latin American mestizos started to claim very significant amounts of Amerindian ancestry despite of the fact that they might have from a non-White POV possibly negligible levels of admixtures only (and this seems to be confirmed by the attitudes of Europeans who never left northwestern Europe and possibly do not even notice actors from other parts of Europe just played Amerindian roles)

That said, e.g., Aeta y-chromosomes can be relatively similar to European ones. But to my knowledge, hardly anybody (if anybody at all outside of this forum) ever discussed this. People don't care because the Aeta are physiologically very different from Hollywood idols, didn't build any well-known pyramids and live in parts of the Philippines where hardly any Westerners would want to live.
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black man
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addenda:

now that we mentioned it, I'm more used to see crowded and elongated upper frontal teeth in the media which I consume. Thai dental patterns are AFAIK different from what I'm used to with Thais possibly having broader and straighter upper frontal teeth. I'd preliminarily guess, it could be like this:

broad teeth, broad dental arch, broad mouth, lips vary: perhaps Filipinos, Ainus and Amerindians (that would imply coastal migrations as for the ancestors of both Amerindians and Filipinos)
broad teeth, intermediate dental arch, smaller mouth, lips rather full: perhaps Mon-Khmer peoples, Tai-Kadai peoples and maybe to a lesser extent some Jiangnan and southern Han
more elongated, possibly also more often crowded frontal teeth, perhaps partly due to selection in favour of very small mouth, lips rather thin: Sino-Tibetans and possibly northern Han in particular?

Feel free to check whether there are such ethnically and regionally relevant tendencies.




Above you just asked about the lips. That would imply a low level of admixture. But when one takes a look at the lips in the context of the lower face, the face as a whole, the head as a whole etc, classification can turn out to be a long-term process...
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