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Chagatai speakers (Uzbeks, Xinjiang Uighurs)
Topic Started: May 21 2013, 05:00:33 PM (142 Views)
lay dialectologist
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http://turkic-languages.scienceontheweb.net/migration_and_classification_of_turkic_languages.html#Chagatai

"Both languages received their respective names only in the 1920's, being known as Chagatai, Sart or Türki for most of the time before that."
-They were different dialects of the same language-continuum, sharing 86% lexical similarity.

"The Chagatai subtaxon is often known as Karluk in Baskakov's classification and those of his followers. However, as we have explained above, the exact origins and linguistic affiliation of Karluks is very obscure, and it is far from clear what relation the early Chagatai people bore to the Karluk tribes. Moreover, this kind of misplacement of ethnonymic stress seems to make the Chagatai language and its well-known relatedness to Uzbek and Uyghur unjustly forgotten, which may make one wonder what kind of Turkic language Chagatai possibly was. For these reasons, the name "Karluk" for this taxon seems to be out-of-place and should probably be replaced with Chagatai."
-"Karluk" is misleading.

Consequently, we can see that the Chagatai-Uzbek-Uyghur languages seems to inherit the original Kyrgyz grammar and some of the vocabulary, but acquired superficial phonological similarity to Karakhanid. The retention of grammar and lexis is normally more fundamental than the changes in the phonology that can be achieved more easily.
-Not sure if this applies to all situations. It could be a Karakhanid language adpapting to Chagatai.

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black man
The Right Hand
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This thread had to be split. Other posts now at ...
http://s6.zetaboards.com/man/topic/8723811/1/
http://s6.zetaboards.com/man/topic/10014080/1/ and
http://s6.zetaboards.com/man/topic/10014079/1/




Chagatai "tribal" history could be reconstructed on the basis of comparisons between Uzbek-speaking, Uyghur-speaking and southern Kyrgyz-speaking populations. The latter should be included in case that their genealogical identities turn out to be from the Chagatai-speaking cluster.

If you're actually interested in discussing the relevant "tribes" and "clans", we can do so. If I'm not mistaken, I can check a list of Kyrgyz "tribes" for a comparison. But you'd have to be really interested in finding out the "tribes", "clans" etc of those people, whose allies and preferred languages might have changed from time to time.

According to physical anthropological studies during the Soviet period, there are differences between northern and southern Kyrgyz. And one might get the idea that southern Kyrgyz are possibly descendants of Chagatai-speakers assimilated by Kyrgyz-speakers. Note though, there are so far no in-depth studies on the genetic backgrounds of the majority of Chagatai-speaking and Kyrgyz-speaking "tribes".
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